Power Winding Rings and Tumbling Bright Aluminum
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Joined: December 19, 2009
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Posted on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:19 pm
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ok here is something i came up with in solidworks. its no were near finished, i still want to add a spool holder, and unwind system but with this you get the rough idea. as it is its totally adjustable so you can adjust the tension on the wire.

also sorry for the image sizes, i'm not at home right now and dont have access to an image editor.
**edit**

also... i left out the hardware, IE the flanged head 1/4 X 20 cap screws i'll add them in the final draw, but right now there more of a head ache to add, as i'm still learning solidworks













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Posted on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:27 pm
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Cool! That's pretty much what I was thinking for making the design in steel. Show us more pictures/designs as you go along, please Smile


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Joined: December 19, 2009
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Location: Chippewa Falls, Wis

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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:30 am
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begining of the spool holder




Joined: May 07, 2008
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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:28 am
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MetalandMineral wrote:
... What's your opinion on winding and cutting your own cutting stainless steel Zili? You say that you've worked a lot with SS and have a ringinator setup, so I'm assuming you have first-hand experience. I've checked and the price savings at TRL between wire and saw cut rings is huge. I realize that the stainless will cut much slower than the aluminum, but I'm thinking that its still better to make your own rings if you can ...

I coiled maybe a hundred pounds of Stainless, in the diameter range of 0.6 to 2.4mm, in different tempers up to spring hard on my setups, and had not the slightest problem with. Refinements (like the bearings) were introduced later, to overcome wear problems when I experienced them. So I suppose that they're sturdy enough for the job. Cutting is another matter, and most of my Stainless is continued to be cut with my beloved Knipex CoBolt, and not sawcut - Stainless simply 'eats' too many sawblades, for my personal taste.

As I live in Europe, getting new blades is a relatively expensive affair, and even shipping times have to be taken into account; I do NOT stock hundreds of blades. So, if I sawcut Stainless, I begin already with the selection of a not too hard wire batch for coiling (mostly 309 or 316), so the blade's yield is as high as possible. Blade costs are relatively significant, and can in some cases even exceed the material cost. And sawcutting steel is comparably time intensive. So I cut only enough rings for a particular project, but not (as I'm used with BA) a typical batch of around 5-10K rings, to be stocked for later use, even if I need only a handful for the moment. So my experience with sawcutting Stainless is very limited, to a 'career total' number of maybe 20-50K rings.
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... Also, beyond your own design Zili, do you know of another design, possibly even one with machining required (I have a friend who runs a machinist shop), that in your opinion works better? I'm willing to spend more if I can get a solid design ...

I HAVE some designs in mind, yes. But as I lack machining capabilities, these were never refined. Else they were already published, once they were proven functional. So I publish only proven designs, with photos of existing hardware, that I can construct with my limited pool of tools and materials.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: June 03, 2002
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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:12 pm
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MetalandMineral wrote:
Jax25: If you switched the whole setup with steel, or at least the rollers with steel, you could probably use stiffer material without issue. The nylon seems like its best for aluminum and other softer materials that are more prone to damage by the rollers, and steel for your stiffer, harder materials where that issue shouldn't exist.

Does winding from the drill tip towards the drill produces right or left-handed rings? I know I should know this haha.



The Nylon rollers are holding up to galvy just fine right now, I suspect they will handle stainless as well without any issue. The rollers have a steel ball bearing at their core, and nylon is actually fairly resistant. There were brass rollers available as well, but much more expensive - if the nylon ones do wear out, then I see two solutions - either a) replace with brass or steel rollers or b) expand the design to use 5 or 7 nylon rollers, each supplying a bit less tension but keeping the overall tension the same. My engineering sense tells me, however, that these will do just fine. After all, they are designed to support a heavy glass door rolling on a steel track.

I have a heckuva time figuring the chirality of rings. I'm not even really sure of the "industry" definition of left handed and right handed rings. But when I hold a cut link in front of me with the cut pointing up, the left side is closer to me and the right side is farther away. I've always thought of this in my mind as being a left handed ring, since looking down a coil the same way the "tail" curves to the right, the same way the fingers on my left hand held in front of me would. As an aside, am I backward?

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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:26 pm
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Well about being 'backward': I like to call the rings 'left-away-opener' or 'right-away-opener'. And as mostly right-handed person, having the left, strong hand being the 'steady' hand, that also holds the already woven piece, and the more tactile right hand doing the actual fine, closing work, I prefer the left-away-opener rings, made with tip-slotted mandrel, coiled from tip to chuck with a drill in 'normal' winding direction. Sure, I can work also with rings wound the other way, but my preference is clear.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: May 08, 2010
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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:29 pm
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Personally, if I have rings that point the wrong way, I reverse the drill and wind em the other way. Laughing

Joined: August 12, 2011
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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:39 pm
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What about a centrifugal style spool brake? Something similar to a clutch in a single gear small dirt bike. With a constant pressure from the beginning(the brake is already in contact with the inside of the spool) and as it spins faster applies a heavier brake load. This would allow you to pull off the tip of wire to run through the pulleys as is being used in this current set up were discussing, but when the RPM picks up applies a higher brake load to keep a consistent feed rate and avoid the dreaded spool back effect.

Some thing like this could be simply modified from a clutch out of one the smaller dirt bikes.


Hex

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Posted on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:19 am
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OK, so far I'm getting really hung up with tumbling my BA. I've tried several different things, and am still developing my methods, but so far no luck. I'm aiming for a simple process for achieving a near-mirror finish on my BA, using wet or dry media in a vibe tumbler.

I'm currently not getting the action in my 3 lb barrel on my 10 lb tumbler with stainless shot due to not having enough shot and the huge weight difference between the shot and aluminum. I've tried some red rouge and walnut (not impregnated) in my 10 lb barrel on the tumbler, but with limited success. Not a high gloss finish--smooth and satiny, yes--but not shinier. This could be because I don;t have enough walnut for the action to occur on the right scale (so speed of tumbling at a fraction of its max). I can switch the media into my small barrel and give it a try, but I'm giving rice a try in it right now.

Anyone know the elusive "mixture" that C&T Designs uses to produce their very shiny BA rings haha? Was reading a blog post in my extensive search for info and right when I thought they would tell me what they were using in place of shot, they didn't, simply labeling it a "mixture".


My Etsy Store for chain maille and lapidary jewelry.

My Blog for chain maille tutorials and basics.

Joined: December 19, 2009
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Posted on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:32 am
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have you tried emailing them and asking them directly? worst they can do is say no.

Joined: June 13, 2009
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Posted on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:41 am
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MetalandMineral wrote:

Anyone know the elusive "mixture" that C&T Designs uses to produce their very shiny BA rings haha? Was reading a blog post in my extensive search for info and right when I thought they would tell me what they were using in place of shot, they didn't, simply labeling it a "mixture".


I cannot speak of C&T, nor would I but progression of finer more gentle media will do the trick.

I personally start with stainless shot then switch to rice. That usually does it for me but on the rare occasion I want something extra gleaming for a photo or the like I will do a run in flour after the rice.



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Posted on Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:56 am
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Dravin: Plan to e-mail them soon, got distracted when I was going to...

Derailed: Do you find walnut or rice to do a better job? With your shot, what shape and size are you using? Also what kind of tumbler are you using? When you tumble with flour, is it purely just flour? I'm not sure how that would work in a vibe tumbler without a media rubbing the flour against it. Either that or taking multiple batches of rings to as a filler and act as the media itself. Sorry bout all the questions Coif Smiley


My Etsy Store for chain maille and lapidary jewelry.

My Blog for chain maille tutorials and basics.

Joined: December 19, 2009
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Posted on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:39 pm
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ok, another thing i taught of on the aluminum front, what grade of al wire are you using? if you are starting out with a duller looking aluminum wire (ie: 4000 series, or fencing wire) no matter how much tumbling you do, the wire is still going to have a dull appearance. to achieve the look your looking for you need to start out with a bright al wire, (ie: 5000 series)

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Posted on Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:08 pm
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I finish tumble my BA rings with rice and get a nice mirror shine.

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Posted on Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:51 pm
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Hex, you don't need to be that fancy with the reel in most handsfree feed setups, as the braking is not to tension the wire. It is to keep the reel from continuing to spin out of inertia and spilling loose loops of wire about your apparatus. The feed end of things should control your wire's behavior on the mandrel.

A touch of your hand on the reel would do fairly well, and a simple friction pad of some sort at the axle will do even better. Remember you aren't dealing with any great big rotating masses here, just moderate ones.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

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