What materials to use for a wedge rivet punch??
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What materials to use for a wedge rivet punch??
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Posted on Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:48 pm
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Hey all as I talked about in a earlier thread I have decided to take on riveted maille as my next project for my self. After many different methods I have finally found a consistent enough way to make thousands of uniform rings with out much waste and now am having a problem with making a reliable punch.

I have tried the usual suspects for materials such as M2 drill bits, carbon rod steel. Even less orthodox ideas such as a grade 10 honda head bolt(which before hand I would have bet was more than strong enough). All have failed. I have had marginal success with the carbon rod and M2 steel drill bits, but nothing that will last more than 10-20 rings with out snapping the tip or losing its shape.

In my original tests I was a little too lax on watching my heat so I know those failed due to loss of temper, but my later attempts I have been more than careful to keep the material as cool as possible while shaping and still almost the same results.

I am only attempting to punch through what was before hammering 16SWG mild steel. I have even attempted to heat the rings a second time before using the punch on them with only marginal gains to the life of my punch. Any help would be greatly appreciated as Im going a bit looney with the frustration Sad


Hex

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Posted on Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:17 pm
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I would try basic masony nails, they are hard and cheap so reshapeing or tossing a bad punch is inexpencive. A small box would let you shape a bunch at once.

What are you supporting the rings with when you punch them?

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Posted on Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:01 pm
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A steel half inch thick washer around 4" in diameter. With a small groove the thickness of my tips I have been making on the punches and about a 1/8" deep.


Hex

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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:47 am
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It also sounds like you need to be heating your links to red before letting them cool in air.

16ga wire can also be a bit heavy for the job -- 18ga annealed or normalized, however you can find it, may be more convenient to work and less inclined to bust your drifts' noses off.


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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:51 pm
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Konstantin the Red wrote:
It also sounds like you need to be heating your links to red before letting them cool in air.

16ga wire can also be a bit heavy for the job -- 18ga annealed or normalized, however you can find it, may be more convenient to work and less inclined to bust your drifts' noses off.


Would 18SWG riveted still make a decently strong product? I never make butted maille out of such a thin gauge because it always comes back for repairs and to be honest will drive me nuts in the long run Coif LoL But I understand how much strength the riveting process adds, my 16SWG test batch handled about 3 times the striking force as its butted counter part before any type of deformation. I just have a hard time thinking 18SWG would result in a good product, for sure it would be less destructive on my tools.

Well looks like another batch of tests on the way. Thanks for the info guys Uber


Hex

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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:15 pm
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For documented historical riveted maille, 18swg was more at the upper end of usual wire diameters - rather typical was wire around a millimeter (~19swg/18awg) in diameter, with comparably high aspect ratioes - an AR of around 6 was already a tight one; documented ones were mostly in the AR 8 range, and ten was no exception. This was due to the fact, that period maille armor had not only to be strong, but also lightweight. And think about the fact, that (except for Japanese) maille was near to always riveted, punched solid or welded, to achieve these advantages. Typical 'modern', butted homebrew maille is only so heavy, as the aspect ratioes NEED to be so low to be acceptably sturdy. I must admit, that the real numbers may be 'falsified' by corrosion, thinning out historical maille's rings - but the tendency is clear.

If you get 18swg soft wire, that is useable for riveted maille, go for it - any riveted maille is historically more correct as butted ever can be.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:16 pm
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Interesting Zili. I had no idea the AR of the historical armor was so high. I agree getting exact data from the corroded remains is likely to have some variance as each piece was likely corroded by different circumstances as well.

Hmm now I need to find some thinner wire and adjust accordingly. I have a feeling I in the long run will return to the thicker stuff, but to get a piece under my belt Im thinking it will have to be thinner for now. For me I just like the smaller AR and larger thickness rings better.

That and I have an old commission offer up for grabs still. A group of local bikers wanted 10 riveted E4-1 vest liners. Sewn between 2 layers of silk on either side to hide it from outside view. But they wanted it quite thick, 14AWG if Im not mistaken. So in the end I will probably end up finding a way to do it thicker as well.

I really do appreciate all the info guys. Now to apply it Coif LoL Needlenose Pliers


Hex

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