wanting byzantine ratios for chunky masculine bracelet
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wanting byzantine ratios for chunky masculine bracelet
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Posted on Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:45 pm
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Hello and how excited am I?

I have just finished my very first bracelet and am bent on making a bracelet with the "Byzantine" weave. It would be for a man. I am interested in stainless steel but could someone answer me this. I have seen some rather fragile looking byzantine weaves that I need to get close to before I recognize its weave due to thin wire and large ID. I feel a smaller gauge and the appropriate ID, one that closes up the "too much space" would make more of an impact. How small a gauge could I go without running into trouble trying to open and close. How small an ID could I go without running into problems as well.

My questions obviously show my ignorance, but that's why I need your help. Perhaps you could just give me some ratios. Thank you all chain maillers reading this and don't change that dial...give me a tip please.

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Posted on Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:06 pm
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i believe what you are looking for would be a proper aspect ratio? if so, i would say to have an aspect ratio about 3.9 or 4 for a relatively tight byzantine weave.

such as .032 inch wire around a 1/8 inch mandrel, for example

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Posted on Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:34 pm
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Actually, an AR of about 3.5 will give you a very nice tight-but-not-too-tight Byzantine. And I would go with at least 18swg for a guy. So:
16awg/4.5mm
14awg/5.75mm
12awg/7.0mm
14swg, 1/4"
16swg, 7/32"
18swg, 5/32"

Or multiply 3.5 by the wire thickness you want to use, and that will give you the ID you need. Remember to use mm to mm or inches to inches and not mix them up.



Smile


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:04 am
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lorraine wrote:
Actually, an AR of about 3.5 will give you a very nice tight-but-not-too-tight Byzantine. And I would go with at least 18swg for a guy. So:
16awg/4.5mm
14awg/5.75mm
12awg/7.0mm
14swg, 1/4"
16swg, 7/32"
18swg, 5/32"

Or multiply 3.5 by the wire thickness you want to use, and that will give you the ID you need. Remember to use mm to mm or inches to inches and not mix them up.



Smile


3.5 with what kind of connection? because i have some copper rings at an AR of around 3.7 and i cannot fit a 2nd connector ring between the boxes and have it still able to... idk... move Razz

and 18 swg would work fine at 1/4 inch with a tripple connection as well, for example. i got a good sized chain of it next to my computer as i speak... though that third connector ring could probably fit well at 7/32 inch as well

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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:20 am
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http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/subcat.cgi?mode=weave&key=78
I'm talking about the standard two connector Byz. I don't know what to tell you Saradamon, the AR's listed in the above link have always worked great for me.


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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:51 am
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Saradamon wrote:
3.5 with what kind of connection? because i have some copper rings at an AR of around 3.7 and i cannot fit a 2nd connector ring between the boxes and have it still able to... idk... move Razz

Is that 3.7 a measured AR or just an estimate? I'm with lorraine, 3.5 should work wonderfully.

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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:54 am
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Vorondil wrote:
Saradamon wrote:
3.5 with what kind of connection? because i have some copper rings at an AR of around 3.7 and i cannot fit a 2nd connector ring between the boxes and have it still able to... idk... move Razz

Is that 3.7 a measured AR or just an estimate? I'm with lorraine, 3.5 should work wonderfully.


estimate, though i KNOW it is over the 3.7

it's closer to 3.9

and the 2nd connector could fit, but then it was practically a unit weave, cause it couldn't bend much at all...

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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:45 am
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@Saradamon, are you sure you measured it right? If you used the outer diameter instead of the inner diameter, you would come up with an AR that would look right on paper but not work well in practice. What are the stats on the piece?

I just made a sample of byzantine with .093" wire wound on a 5/16" mandrel. Measure AR of 3.6.

As you can see, the chain is quite flexible

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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:02 am
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it's .8mm wire around 3mm nail.

thus about 3.7-3.8 aspect ratio, with absolute error factored in.

i'll bring the patch to school and take measurements with a vernier caliper, though, to be sure.

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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:31 pm
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12g 5/16 makes good looking byz, but as for a brace i think that a bit to big. better suted for a walet chain. 16g 1/4 is about as large as i would go.


maille Code V2.0 T8.3 R6.4 Ep.f Fper Mfe.s Wsg$ Cpw$ G0.25-2.5 I0.5-30 N31.31 Pa Dacdjw Xa27g37w1 S94

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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:03 pm
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MaxumX wrote:
12g 5/16 makes good looking byz, but as for a brace i think that a bit to big. better suted for a walet chain. 16g 1/4 is about as large as i would go.


16swg 1/4" is pretty heavy and thick, lol. i'd say not to go that high

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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:07 pm
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MaxumX wrote:
12g 5/16 makes good looking byz, but as for a brace i think that a bit to big. better suted for a walet chain. 16g 1/4 is about as large as i would go.

I would agree. I wasn't actually suggesting the 12g, it was more of a proof of concept to show that AR 3.6 was perfectly usable since there was some doubt. Actually, I later tried 16swg 7/32" and it gave me about the same results (since the AR was almost the same), but in a much more reasonable size.

@Saradamon, I don't suppose your school also has a camera you could use? It's really strange that your byz isn't working. Maybe if we could see it, then we could find the problem.

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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:35 pm
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Sarademon:i like mine..lol was hard to make/find a clasp that looked good thou. wond up welding one up.

Vorondil: ahh i must have missed that some ware in there.

but like i said that is as high as i would go. not meaning thats a recomended size. i like it but to each thier own.

my recomendations would be .039 .185 ID (~19g x 4.7mm) and.032 .116 (~20g x 2.9mm) if my memory has not faild me this day..lol


maille Code V2.0 T8.3 R6.4 Ep.f Fper Mfe.s Wsg$ Cpw$ G0.25-2.5 I0.5-30 N31.31 Pa Dacdjw Xa27g37w1 S94

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Posted on Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:08 pm
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measurements from the caliper sugguest it to be a 3.08mm ID and 0.94mm wire, thus having a 3.3 AR, as it would seem... strange... the wire looks the same thickness as my .032" wire (which is .8mm, for clarification) but is apparently not...

well, i found the issue XD

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Posted on Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:20 am
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MaxumX wrote:
Vorondil: ahh i must have missed that some ware in there.

Nope, you didn't miss it. I actually forgot to mention it, but it's the thought that counts, right?

@Saradamon, glad to see you found your problem. Now you know the value of a good pair of calipers.

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