New Byzantine web?
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Joined: June 22, 2006
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New Byzantine web?
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Posted on Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:18 pm
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I couldn't find this in the weaves section. Did I miss it?


And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be.

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Posted on Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:48 pm
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Yes and No, varent of the std net i would call it.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/subcat.cgi?key=203
http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/subcat.cgi?key=2468

just as these two are. so not in the libray as a varent but not a new weave ither.


maille Code V2.0 T8.3 R6.4 Ep.f Fper Mfe.s Wsg$ Cpw$ G0.25-2.5 I0.5-30 N31.31 Pa Dacdjw Xa27g37w1 S94

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Posted on Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:24 pm
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Seems to me like a Bastardized Byzantine net/sheet. I would wait for a few more opinions, could be considered as a submission worthy variant.


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Posted on Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:25 am
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In David Austin's description of Byzantine Web Square he says "Byzantine Web Square is a weave which has four Byzantine chains come off each axis instead of two (Byzantine), three (Byzantine Web), or six (Byzantine Web Triangle)." Looks like what Cúchulainn has made there is exactly what David is referring to. I would say just adding more "arms" to the web doesn't make it a new weave.


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Posted on Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:02 am
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What is std net?

Is there a picture of Byzantine Web Triangle somewhere?


And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be.

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Posted on Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:24 am
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std = standard just short for it is all.


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Posted on Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:15 am
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Byzantine Web Triangle doesn't deserve to be its own weave? Too bad for Byzantine Web Triangle.


And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be.

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Posted on Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:19 am
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Cúchulainn wrote:

Is there a picture of Byzantine Web Triangle somewhere?


Not that I know of. I personally haven't gotten around to producing the weave, and I'm not sure if anyone else has. And who says it doesn't deserve to be its own weave? If the web hex and web square versions can exist as weaves, why can't this?


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Posted on Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:31 am
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Yeah - too bad, but a fact. It's a variant, has its own name, and will surely shine up in next MAIL incarnation under Byzantine variants.

Edit: David's argumentation may be a basis for a valid weave submission - but I guess that these weaves would then be downgraded to variants in the later MAIL incarnation soon to come. The argument for downgrading ALL webs to variants is, that EVERY linear weave can be turned into a web - a near to unlimited number of. So the requirement for weave, as currently defined, is imho NOT fulfilled by webs. Or does anybody want to flood our database with a plethora of weave submissions consisting of webs? If yes, I claim all Harvest Moon webs - I can prove to have made examples of... Very Happy

But don't worry about - I already published a couple of weave variants (even some that fulfilled the requirements to be a weave on own merits and so gave them own names) - and usually did an article then for harboring the knowledge at a safe place, that can be reffered at. So you might make sample strips/patches, of byz (as comparison basis), byz hexagon web, byz square web, and byz triangle web - and may add even some 'bastards' (like e.g. pentagon/rhombus alternate web, or what else comes into your mind, just to show possibilities) - and embed all into a comprehensive article that might prove useful - for the community AND your reputation within.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
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A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
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-'me

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Posted on Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:45 pm
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ZiLi wrote:
The argument for downgrading ALL webs to variants is, that EVERY linear weave can be turned into a web - a near to unlimited number of.


Now I'm going completely off topic, but I like the idea of a Devil's Stitch Web. Tutorial anyone? Laughing I even tried to make Devil's Stitch once, but I didn't work out very well. Maybe I should give it another try.


Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae. [Of all these the Belgians are the bravest/strongest.]
- Gaius Iulius Caesar, De Bello Gallico I 3

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Posted on Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:42 pm
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Byzantine Web Triangle probably doesn't need to be classified as its own weave but, since there isn't a 'variants' section, I think it should at least get its picture up somewhere near the other Byzantine weaves/variants.

It would be a lot of work but what if each weave entry had a link to all the weaves that are related to it?

What if under each weave category there were a sub-category for variants?

Ooh! Weave taxonomy! That would be so awesome!


And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be.

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Posted on Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:22 am
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As a progression, it is as much a weave as E6, E8, etc.

That's my commentary at the moment. I think I could probably come up with some other comments, but I'm distracted, at the moment.


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Posted on Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:39 am
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ElementalDragon wrote:
As a progression, it is as much a weave as E6, E8, etc...


ED, as I THINK to know, progression weaves are principally allowed in a single ('example') instance, to document the feature of possible progressivity of a weave - the possibility to show other/further variants is always given in Gallery and Articles, or in forum posts. And some already accepted (and relatively often made) weaves progressing a base weave further than just one step simply remain as 'heritage' in the database. *)

So currently changes in ring interconnections of 'structural' rings are the main criterion for accepting a new weave - but not adding of nonstructural rings, not doubling, tripling, moebiusing of structural (or nonstructural) ones, even if they sometimes yield astonishing results - except there would be a significant influence on the basic weave's ring interconnections as a somewhat 'boderline case' that could be decided on by the weave admin. But with WEBS, neither validity criterion is given, so the 'one example per base weave' rule would apply. As long as there isn't published a webbed variant, feel free to make and publish one; if there's already one, you've lost - that might sound harsh, but life IS harsh - we're not a 'petting zoo'. That's a much similar problematic as with chains (or webs) built from units with n-in-1 connector, that most times do NOT qualify as weave, as well.

This all was discussed more than once during the last years, and I just suumed up. There wasn't a solution found, that could please everybody (is that possible at all?). I really don't envy the weave admin for the sometimes thankless job to have to deny weave submissions, that look well and innovative, seem useful, and are knowledge that should not be lost. So remains hope for MAIL3, to give us the possibility to show these variants attached to the base weave entry (as that is THE place they should reside) - and that would have the potential to please the most of us.

-ZiLi-

*) See the example JPL: JPL3 is the base one, JPL5 the progression, JPL7 and up are further ones. Following the rules, I would have allowed JPL3, and 5, but would have hesitated to approve 7 and up (maybe due to the special status of JPL3 that can be seen as AR-locked Spiral as well, I could have interpreted that as special case, and have approved 5 and 7 as base and variant, but not more). And don't forget, that I did NOT submit 'Whatif' and its variants as weave, but consciously chose to publish them as variants in an article - despite the fact that I was urged by some people to publish them as weave. And there are other ones, that I see as weave due to the interconnection rule, but are seen by others as variants - I didn't publish them as well (but really think about doing so)...


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3615
Submissions: 149
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:12 pm
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BTW: I think about a variant of the web we talk here about, that interconnects the 'wings' of Byz cells (by alternating slight flipping up/down of wing rings, maybe a higher AR is needed), maybe even potentially omitting the central 'six-branch' web connector ring - I'm not positively sure, if that can work, but that could qualify as weave on own merits, as there would be another, basically 'new' ring interaction between byz cells...

Just as hint. The first who shows a piece, may 'grab' it for her/his own portfolio.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 3056
Submissions: 20
Location: Burlington, ON, Canada

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Posted on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 pm
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Cúchulainn wrote:
Byzantine Web Triangle probably doesn't need to be classified as its own weave but, since there isn't a 'variants' section, I think it should at least get its picture up somewhere near the other Byzantine weaves/variants.

It would be a lot of work but what if each weave entry had a link to all the weaves that are related to it?

What if under each weave category there were a sub-category for variants?

Ooh! Weave taxonomy! That would be so awesome!


It's coming, it's coming... *sigh*

As fast as I can...



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